Ursus Pacificus

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I recently watched the thunderf00t v. Ray Comfort … encounter … on YouTube.

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It was interesting, although not especially enlightening or persuasive (for me, anyway, since I’m already firmly rooted in the god-free camp).

It did cause me to think about something, though.

There was a spot in the series (and this thing is about 95 minutes long, and broken up into 10 separate parts, so finding individual quotes really requires more time than I’m prepared to devote right now) where thunderf00t (whom I’ll refer to as TF hereafter) asks Ray whether he believes in demons, and Ray says yes… then TF plows through a list of other imaginary beings, like witches and wizards and so on… to each of which, Ray says “yes”.

At another point, Ray denounces “magic” as being (I’m paraphrasing here) unreal, but, practically in the next breath, declaring miracles to be perfectly real.

Magic, in the sense of witches and whatnot, is practically indistinguishable from miracles, except that a human (or humanoid) is directing it. Magic requires (it seems to me) at least one of the three following modes of operation to be valid:

1. One or more “gods” exists, like stage hands in black body-stockings, just waiting around to help the conjurer achieve things outside the bounds of natural law
2. The conjurer is a hybrid natural/supernatural being, able to bend or break natural law at will
3. What science has revealed as natural law is not really law… more like guidelines, and somehow, conjurers can exceed them, or cause them to be exceeded, with just words, thoughts and gestures

*cough*bullshit*cough*

Put another way, miracles are just magic, except that not only is the means of conjuring obscured, but the conjurer (god) is also hidden.

To buy the concept of miracles, but discount magic, or vice versa, is ludicrous, because they are functionally identical.

To accept the viability of magic or miracles, but also claim that the world operates in accordance with natural laws is dissonant, because the magic/miracle model requires there to be a “trap door” which allows the conjurer to operate “above the law”, but the natural law model insists that the laws simply cannot be broken.

For miracles to be valid, there must be a god capable, with or without prompting, of acting outside the bounds of natural law.

For magic to be valid, the conjurer is a god, or commands gods.

Of course, the idea of saints, angels, devils, demons, gods, and so on (as well as the miracles/magic they perform) requires that these beings depend on the same “Supernatural Physics” as any god requires to simply exist and operate in our universe.

Supernatural physics, at a minimum, has to:

• allow energy to order itself without the influence of matter or other energy
• allow one collection of supernaturally ordered energy to interact with other collection of supernaturally ordered energy without interacting with the surroundings of either or any intervening spacetime/matter/energy
• allow collections of ordered energy to be undetectable (no radiation, interaction with particles, electromagnetic fields, et cetera)
• allow a collection of supernaturally ordered energy to be conscious
• allow a collection of supernaturally ordered energy to, at will, suspend supernatural physics, and interact with normal matter and energy, but in an undetectable way.
• allow sensation without interference (contrary to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle)… its eye casts no shadow.
• allow for violation of the second law of thermodynamics, since supernatural activities neither consume anything, nor generate any waste (lest they be detectable and mortal)
• allow for faster-than-light communication and transport, which makes no detectable disturbance in the intervening spacetime, matter or energy fields

..AND it has to do all this, while allowing all of us to go about our daily lives catching baseballs, using electrical appliances, cutting down trees, eating food and having sex as if the laws of nature, as discovered and described through the practice of science really worked all the time.

All of this stinks of special pleading.

Without “Supernatural Physics”, there are no gods, no angels, no devils, no demons, no eternal souls, no miracles, and there is no magic.

With “Supernatural Physics”, the universe is a loony unpredictable place, where, today water might freeze at 32 degrees, but tomorrow, it might turn into a chicken at 32 degrees, and there’s no way for you to know how or why it happened, or to predict it next time, or anything… One minute you’re alive, the next you’re dead, and three days later, you’re alive again, as an undetectable “spirit” SOME people can see, but others can’t.

To believe in a god, you have to believe in “Supernatural Physics”, and to believe in “Supernatural Physics” you have to discount the validity of REAL PHYSICS, the consequences of which are readily observable all around you every minute of every day. To actively, consciously discount the validity of REAL PHYSICS, you have to be an idiot.

So… Miracles is magic is god is baloney.

NewsUndies - All the news that shouldn’t be news for July 24, 2009 — Aso dissolves parliament; Watergate for sale; Palin uses Twitter; India freaks over eclipse; Celebrity Birthdays; Churches put faith in science; OpposingViewpoints; Obama snubs Apollo XI astronauts; Jacko Doc being investigated and more!

Wow! Washington is mental!

The the NASM’s Udvar-Hazy Center was quite a bit less crazy, and seemed to be more focused on straight-forward aviation, and not so much on “exhibits” as “artifacts”. There is less of a “Boo-yah! Go, USA!” feel to this facility. It’s more of a check it out, read the plaques, make up your own mind kind of thing. A little more my speed.

The main NASM exhibit space on the Mall in Washington is far more exhibit-ey, and USA-ey. I suppose you’d have to expect that from a museum on the national Mall. Of course, we happened to be there at a particularly chaotic time, when the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing was being observed. Buzz Aldrin, Mike Collins and Alan Bean were all selling and signing books. That added a level of lunacy… then there’s the regular touristy crowd, who may or may not know that Apollo really happened… and maybe even think that airplanes fly because gods make it so…. Belligerent, rude, careless people. Lots of them.

Then, we got to see the astronauts. Wow. It was the annual John Glenn Lecture. This year, the featured speakers were all three of the Apollo XI crew, along with Christopher Kraft. John Glenn, himself, also spoke.

First it was Glenn. His remarks were polite, considered, and inoffensive.

Then, came Kraft, whose remarks, as I recall them, were mostly recollections of the nervousness between liftoff and Lunar landing of Apollo XI.

Next was Buzz Aldrin. Aldrin wasted little time on platitudes, and went right into, “Why haven’t we landed on Mars yet?” I happen to agree with most of Aldrin’s arguments, and I am tired of the political timidity of US leadership.

Mike Collins spoke next, and as I expected, he was more philosophical than Aldrin. Collins strikes me as more of a “neutral” thinker with a healthy sense of humor. His remarks reflected that, and he focused more on the personal impact of having been to the Moon and returning. He closed his remarks with, “I guess you could put ‘Lucky’ on my tombstone, but not too soon.”

Finally Neil Armstrong came up. He focused on what he saw as the three catalysts for the mission to the Moon: Goddard, Governance, and Geophysics.

Here’s a little NY Daily News piece.

The remarks of these three ordinary who served as the face of a team of some 400,000 Americans who achieved something singularly remarkable were, themselves, remarkable in their perspective, thoughtfulness and frankness.

It’s just a shame that our countrymen can’t be persuaded to seriously consider their positions.

The GF and I are in DC this weekend. Tomorrow, we’re heading to the National Air and Space Museum’s Udvar-Hazy Center, then going to he main building on The Mall on Sunday, where we’re going to see Neil Buzz and Mike chat about Apollo 11. Sweet.

I had originally planned to make this stop back in October on the VisionQuest, but this is groovy, too!

Gonna shoot vids and pix and so on…

More later.

NewsUndies: All the news that shouldn’t be news for July 17, 2009… Kim is ill; Democrats might question the judgement of Bush, now; John Calvin turns 500; Ireland stuck in Medieval Middle-East; Alberto Gonzalez; ExxonMobil tosses a nickel to renewable energy; Pamplona, Spain; Jon Gosselin keeps getting dumber; Cats run the show; Pope takes a well-deserved vacation

Just one request, Mr. Hitchens… Could you please refrain from mumbling. I’m interested in what you have to say.

I now have an account on ThinkAtheist.com.

Here’s my profile there: http://www.thinkatheist.com/profiles/blog/list?user=1nkymx6453jlp

Am I spreading myself too thin?

So, the GF, her son and I went to JesusFest, in Rockville, CT yesterday… and lemme tell you… it was a fest. A Frost Fun Fest, to be sure.

Scarlet Fade, a teeny-bopper Christian-grunge modern reinterpretation of the Go-Go’s (with a barely-male drummer), was the main act. These kids are not incompetent musicians, and they did have some stage presence and energy… but… then Ali [bio - age unspecified] started to tell us about a song she wrote, that they were going to play next… and how it came from “a time in her life” when blah blah blah…. Ali, I’ve got news for you. There hasn’t been enough time in your life to you a phrase like “a time in my life”. You’re in THE time of your life. Wait till you’re 25, washed-up, living in a box on the Sunset Strip… turning tricks to pay for your meth habit. When you turn THAT around, then you can write songs about “a time in your life”

Then there was the Midway.

There was a guy there, in a … what do you call it… a shade tent? He was selling individual kneeling benches… for when you’re home, praying along with the televised mass, I guess… eek. There was a tent with a sign on it: “NEED PRAYER?” …with a few people waiting, apparently, to help people pray for or about things. …? There was a mobile petting zoo, which according to the GF, was fine, except for the rude, pushy Christians.

I missed out on the mobile petting zoo, because I ran into my cousin’s husband there… and lemme tell you, he was SURPRISED to see ME there. We ended up going into the adjacent church, because my cousin was in there… so there was this nice little family reunion thing… that was a little awkward, being that I’m at JesusFest, in a church, wearing one of my famous Reality Check shirts. Still, it was pleasant to catch up, and they didn’t seem too horrified by my shirt…

We wandered around a bit more, then went home.

I have to say it was a little spooky… it was like walking around in a fur coat, eating a raw hunk of veal, at a PETA convention. Apparently, none of us had the “look in our eyes” that said we were “saved”… and then there was my shirt….

So all-in-all… I’d say it was interesting. I mean… good for them… the rented a street, had a little fun… I can’t say I agree with what they believe (and perpetuate with all the merchandise and entertainment)… but they’re free to believe it.

Oh, and I now have a “personal” twitter account. You can follow NewsUndies stuff on http://twitter.com/newsundies, and follow ME, personally, at http://twitter.com/ursuspacificus.

Whee!

Hey, all!

There’s a brand new NewsUndies up, and it’s got all kinds of new pieces parts! New occasional segments, including “Political Suicide Watch” and “Look Who’s DEAD!”… PLUS! Location footage! Not that it’s especially relevant to the subject matter… but it was such a lovely day!

I hope you enjoy it. If you do, please share it… subscribe on YouTube… comment… follow newsundies on twitter… be a fan on facebook… holy crap! There’s so much going on I just can’t contain myself…

Have a lovely weekend!